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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:50 am 
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Stereo

Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:32 am
Posts: 2
Hi, first post here, I am interested in learning MC conversion from stereo and this is sure the place to do that. However, I have a somewhat off-topic question for members here who have used surround-from-stereo modes on receivers and noticed what they do with more than the casual ear. I posted this on another forum and was directed here, so this is a paste of that post:

Hello users of DPLIIx, Neo:6, Neural Surround, etc.!
I'm helping design a renovation of a small theater sound system. It must be surround for movies, be able to do PowerPoint with voice-overs, and hip-hop or other music events where it is Ipod (etc.) plus voice-over.
Movie mode is easy, using BDP-93 HDMI to Marantz Pre/Proc http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pa...oductId=AV7005 to Crown amps and JBL seven speakers plus sub.
For presentation, the first thought was a mixer to combine any mics with computer or IPod audio, then through an auto switcher that would only utilize L, C, and R. Not using the Marantz at all in this mode.
While this would work, being that students will use this theater for events, I think the first questions to come up will be "Why don't my backing tracks come through all the speakers?" and "Why can't we use the subwoofer for some thump in our stepper sets?"

So here's my question for anyone who's heard a mono source through simulated surround. I've only heard a mono CD through DPLIIx on my receiver, and sound came out of only Center, which could be ok for music shows, but for presentations, all speakers would be expected. We could do extra switching and have a dedicated presentation mode, but what if Neo:6 or Neural Surround or something else on the Marantz processed mono information spread around all speakers?
Does anyone know if this is the case, that mono (common to both channels, as in a mic panned center) would sound from all speakers? It would sure simplify not just the configuration, but the user experience.

Any ideas welcome, and I'll try to clarify if needed.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:59 pm 
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SBU Wiki Team
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Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:01 am
Posts: 656
The tools we have here would put a mono signal in C only.

Using VSTs, we can recreate mono to stereo synthesizers from the 80s (the Orban method) and then convert that stereo to surround, but the orban method does suffer from a "phasiness" effect that causes ear fatigue.

Check this out for a newer approach:

Today WAVES announced a "native" (vs. hardware powered) mono to stereo plugin.

As near as I can tell this not available as a VST, only as a plugin for Pro Tools. However, reading the manual it is probably possible (with a lot of effort) to duplicate using VSTs we already have access to.

The bad news going in is that this is another comb filter method, but perhaps this is as good as comb filtering can get.

Here's the intro in the manual:

Quote:
Michael Gerzon, the inventor of the PS22 process, died in May 1996, only a few months before releasing this product.
Michael invested years of mathematical research, as well as audio engineering into this new type of process.
Although the basic process underlying PS22 was previously incorporated into some commercial products, PS22 is
the first time this process has been made available as a precision tool for pro audio engineers.
Michael did live to see the last stages of development of PS22, and was very pleased with what he saw and heard.
This Users Guide was drafted by Michael, and is a vivid example to the devotion this man had into creating excellent
audio processing tools, and educating for their correct use and understanding. This is especially evident reading the
text in Section 2: In-depth topics, which is almost untouched from Michael’s original draft.
Process licensed from Trifield Productions Limited, US Patent 5671287


Also this:

Quote:
Very low phasiness. The unique patented StereoMaker processing produces sounds of low phasiness,
giving a highly listenable sound. Ordinary stereo pans sounds to different positions with low
interchannel phase difference. Previous pseudostereo processing caused large interchannel phase
differences which produced a vague and phasey sound which was not pleasant to listen to for
extended periods.


http://www.waves.com/manuals/plugins/PS22.pdf

Another one:

https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/newsletter.html


All of that seems overkill, however, to just get the sound in all channels. If it were me, I'd get a mixer that had enough subgroup and/or aux groups to handle 5.1. Failing that, a patch panel with y-cord patches (1 output to multiple inputs).


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:15 am 
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Stereo

Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:32 am
Posts: 2
Yup. We talked it out yesterday and came to the same conclusion, subgroups. eventually we'll have RS232 control with a one-button "switch" between the modes. Thanks for the input.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:06 pm 
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SBU Wiki Team
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Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:01 am
Posts: 656
I don't know if you will be doing any recording but I just bought an Allen & Heath ZED 16-R:

http://www.allen-heath.com/uk/products/ ... &SubCatId=

Very flexible in terms of sub groups and aux, etc. Plus, along with a ART DPS-II 2ch spam preamp and Behringer ADA 8000 8ch mic preamp You can record 26 independent channels simultaneously via firewire.

Cheers,
Z


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