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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:52 pm 
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Surround Fan

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:38 pm
Posts: 6
Location: KY
I have just published a new tool for the Decoders/Converters in the Community. This is a multi-function quadraphonic decoder with an addition of "Stereo Enhance" quad-synth to a panorama-type "horseshoe".

I would like to hear your comments and "constructive" criticisms. Thus discussion area has been set up for that purpose.

You can find the layout for Plogue Bidule here: https://www.surroundbyus.com/sbu/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=780

If you like it please consider a donation to assist in further development. It was years in development, testing, and improving.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:22 am 
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Quad

Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:11 am
Posts: 4
Hi

Has anyone actually got this to work? All i get is an error when trying to load the file. Odd there's no traffic on this subject

BT


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:30 am 
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What error do you get?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:22 am 
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Quad

Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:11 am
Posts: 4
Yea, guess that would help :lol:

Using V 0.9688

Datatype Error:TypeInvalidDatatypeValueException, message value'gateled' is not in enomeration
Line:25227 Col 114


Hope that makes some sense


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:06 pm 
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The current version of Plogue is .9745.

You can get it here:

Code:
http://www.plogue.com/bidule/latest/


You'll want the 32 bit standalone version, even if you have a 64 bit OS.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:58 pm 
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Surround Fan

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:38 pm
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Location: KY
Zeerround wrote:
The current version of Plogue is .9745.

You can get it here:

Code:
http://www.plogue.com/bidule/latest/


You'll want the 32 bit standalone version, even if you have a 64 bit OS.



Thanks for fielding that question for me... I don't know much about errors (my problems have always been overloading the CPU or freezing-up). Hope that solved his problem.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:45 am 
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Quad

Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:11 am
Posts: 4
Thanks for that, upgrading it to the latest version solved the problem.

I've been doing some listening and comparing and i'm not sure it's decoding the different matrix system's correctly. I admit i don't know the program well at all and any attempt to look into the matrix decoder to see what settings are being used has so far drawn a blank.

But thanks for what looks to be an interesting project.

My the way i think i should be stated you need a really gutsy computer to run this without issues :P


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:51 pm 
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Surround Fan

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:38 pm
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Location: KY
brandytabs wrote:
Thanks for that, upgrading it to the latest version solved the problem.

I've been doing some listening and comparing and i'm not sure it's decoding the different matrix system's correctly. I admit i don't know the program well at all and any attempt to look into the matrix decoder to see what settings are being used has so far drawn a blank.

But thanks for what looks to be an interesting project.

My the way i think i should be stated you need a really gutsy computer to run this without issues :P



Glad you got it loaded.
Is there a specific matrix you found to be an issue? That's what I'm looking for to improve it and what this Discussion forum is for. Looking inside won't tell you much until you know Plogue a little better, even then it's a very complex layout.
I try to post testing tools for the matrix soon which will output an encoded pair to view the decode.

Yes, it's a CPU hog but my Dell (Win7 w/ Nvidia graphics card HDMI audio) will let me run it at 96k (just barely) if I don't use the ASIO Duplex and just set my Audio Out to the MME device. I'm trying to optimize it to run easier so users can substitute a better -90 degree phase VST and run at higher resolution (ie. 96k) so the separation improves. I have a beta version (not yet ready) that sounds SWEET but is too intense for some computers.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:21 pm 
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Quad

Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:11 am
Posts: 4
The main issue i have is with SQ and EV-4. Compared to some my decoder there's something not right but i'll admit i've not done a deep look into why.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 11:30 am 
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Surround Fan

Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:38 pm
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Location: KY
brandytabs wrote:
The main issue i have is with SQ and EV-4. Compared to some my decoder there's something not right but i'll admit i've not done a deep look into why.


Sorry for the slow response. I am in the middle of a re-design to try to make SQ a less CPU intensive module so I'll re-wire it all just to make sure I didn't carelessly connect something wrong last time I did it (don't think so but I've done worst things).

In regard to SQ there is one thing technically wrong in the math from the beginning: The back channels are 90 deg out of phase with the fronts on Side decodes. This is true only for side decodes, all other signals are phase correct at the outputs. This is not due to a flaw in the layout but to the original equations of a "Position Encoder" used on most SQ material.

Follow me just a minute: A LSide encode is not a .707L to LF & a .707L encoded to LB(-90 in L and -180 in R). A "proper" Positional Encode of a LSide is a .924L(at -45deg) & a .383R(at -135deg). Any decoder passes the Lt and Rt signals as is to the proper front channels (better decoders then remove the other channel info in those signals). The trouble arises in that for a LSide signal the Lt is already at -45deg. Then the LB is produced by Lt -90 (-45 becomes -135) then inverted (-135 becomes +45; actually -270) (Edit: didn't double check my math,+45 is actually -315 not -270). The Rt is inverted and added to this signal (-135 becomes +45). This puts the LF and LB 90 deg out. A similar condition occurs on the RSide signal. This is not the fault of the decoder but the encoder (it already in the signal before we get it).

A "work around" is to then phase correct the outputs: take the LB and apply -90 (+45 becomes -45 to match the LF). Those that would argue that the "true" LB signals are then +90 out of phase, I would say "Out of phase with what... they don't appear anywhere else except as leakage." A similar correction would have to be made to the RB.

Adding more components to the layout certainly won't make it run faster but could be added, after monitoring the current setup, for an "Off line" run (a special method of processing without an Audio Output) for a final conversion.

As for EV-4, I must say I don't know a lot about it and don't have any sources that I know are truly EV-4. The included decoder was modeled after a "Radio Electronics" article from the 70's.

I would appreciate any comments or criticisms on anything related to this project. I only want to make it as good as possible.


Last edited by S T Riddle on Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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